carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." i am carol massar. julia: we are inside headquarters in new york. i am julia chatterley. carol: the #metoo movement takes roots in sweden. julia: the former indiana governor take the budget deal to purdue university. carol: and life lessons shaping the way he loves -- runs microsoft. julia we love that story. : all ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ carol: we are here with the

editor in chief of bloomberg businessweek, megan murphy. let's start with politics. one of the most gender-neutral equal societies, and they are having a me too movement. >> they are definitely having a #metoo moments. this is something that is really interesting. it is still focused on individuals and bad behavior, outrage, anger. sweden is one of the most gender-neutral equal countries and almost -- a much smaller gap in labor force, a 4.5% wage gap. but really focused on policies. and not focused so much on shame of individuals but how can we use this moment to implement policies, which have proven successful? but really looking at using criminal penalties for sex abuse, education, really meaningful real-world change. in america, sometimes we're not as good as taking these moments of outrage and connecting them to do anything with it for change.

that is what we have seen in sweden. julia: what is fascinating to me about this, there seems to be far more protections for women, in sweden than anywhere else. they have a strange culture of silence. they see all sorts of sectors in sweden, too. >> that is what is so fascinating about it. this is a country that is modeled on, in part, because of the regressive paternity leave policy and making sure that men carry an equivalent burden of child-rearing. we see all the studies that having men shoulder an equivalent part of household rearing, taking care of that, is the key to keeping women in the workforce and closing the gender gap. this is a society that has been transparent, and as we said, it has a much smaller participation rate issue and a wage issue. it talks about these issues openly, but still faces many of the challenges that we see in this article. a very male-dominated political spectrum.

still industries dominated by men. julia: what about the culture of silence? >> they have the policies in place. carol: but where is the enforcement? megan: we have these policies and we need to make sure there is accountability. that is what people are struggling for, around the world, where these issues have come out. how do we change it and make people accountable? as the mother of a young daughter, how do we leave the next generation in a position where this isn't happening anymore? sweden is proving quite successful making real policy changes. one hopes that other countries will use this as an example and look for other things we can do. julia: talking about taking action, talk about mitch daniels. he is not in ordinary president by any means. megan: i love this story because

he is a former two-term republican of indiana, but he is doing something that other people aren't. where we see rising tuition costs, and universities operate much more as a business with big athletic department, he has done two interesting things. he's trying to keep tuition cost down or lower in some cases, and he's encouraging students to graduate in three years, not four. i wish i had done that. [laughter] the other thing is, he controversially bought a online educational business, n, and -- kaplan, he believes it is fundamental to really changing this thing. and how the universes are operated. it is a fascinating look at someone who is going against the grain and against the trend. going as someone who is to send someone to college in four years, i love this idea of stopping the increases in tuition. we have more from our reporter. >> mitch daniels was most recently the governor of indiana

and served two terms as governor. prior to that, had been as the most well-known as budget director in george w. bush's white house. he was the senior advisor to president reagan. he also spent time as an executive at eli lilly, so he has had a wealth of experience, mostly in the public sector and national politics, and to some extent, the private sector as well. but has had no experience whatsoever as an academic. or in the academic field. in that sense, he sort of the unconventional university president. carol: he came to purdue in 2013 and started shaking things up big time. as a mother who will send her kid to college in three years, i love what he did. he froze the cost of tuition. >> right. he came in and think he was clear from the outset that the model that a lot of elite universities, both public and

private, have been adhering to was under pressure. and if it wasn't broken, it was going to break it some point. basically, you have a situation where more and more students are applying and seeking to attend these elite schools. as a result, they have an incentive to continue to raise tuition. that is saddling students with more and more debt that they take longer and longer to pay off. it is especially true in public universities were you also, at the same time, have seen significant declines in state funding. to even the flagship universities like university of michigan, university of virginia, university of wisconsin. daniels came in and said we've got to change this and get off this roller coaster. he said, why don't we freeze tuition and the for ways to reduce cost elsewhere, make up for that revenue we are losing from this steady annual increase

in tuition? and maybe it will give us a competitive advantage. four years later, proof is that purdue has benefited hugely from this. students have benefited. the university has seen a massive increase in the number of students applying to go to purdue. in alumni donations. across the board, and most importantly, students are graduating with less debt. i would say it is an experiment that worked on a larger scale. can it work on a larger scale? that remains to be seen. julia: this is fascinating to me because it sounds like a man with a lot of policy experience. at the state level in particular, and now taking it to an institution and seeing how we can shake things up and make it work better. it is an intuitive response. as you have said, applications have increased. i imagine a lot of people around second, if we a

freeze these, it will look like we can't get people in the door. a lot of people were very concerned about that measure in particular. like a discount university. >> i said earlier, people said that if we do this, it's going to look like we lost confidence in our product. that is something that any marketer would worry about. if you discount the price of your product, it signals the quality of that product somehow lower than it has been. i think he recognized that while that might be a potential risk, the advantage of being seen as an institution that was actually taking costs seriously, that was concern about affordability, and was ultimately going to deliver an education that costs less and give more students options when they came out was a risk worth taking, and would ultimately

worked to purdue's advantage. i think he has been right in that. let's talk about other things he has done because it is pretty disruptive in terms of university. he's talked about interest-free student loans, exchange for percentage, and future earnings from the student. he also bought an online university, one that was painted -- tainted with controversy. >> earlier this year, purdue announced that they had acquired most of kaplan university. which is a for-profit chain of mostly online education properties. and basically, what this deal looks like, purdue is going to take over ownership. kaplan is going to create a new institution with a different name, which still hasn't been fully resolved. they are not spending any money on the acquisition. kaplan will continue to provide

backend support and marketing. do a lot of the nuts and bolts. and then will receive a percentage of revenues going forward. carol: up next, is this assembly-line a picture of peace or a marketing ploy? julia: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

♪ carol: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. i'm carol massar. julia: i'm julia chatterley and you can find us online at businessweek.com. carol: and on our mobile app. the company behind soda stream employs a multicultural staff at their israeli factory. julia: we asked if this could be a model for peace in the region. >> what he is doing is not just selling home soda making machines. at the same time, he's selling peace. we wanted to go to israel and talk to him and find out what that was about. julia: it is an israeli company and it is located in quite an interesting area that moved from the west bank. explain the location because this is important. >> basically, there biggest manufacturing operation was located on the west bank, which

is in the occupied territory that i think a lot of people be israel is there illegally. they were seized in the war in 1967, so that became a big issue because there are some groups that are trying to boycott israel. and the fact that soda stream was operating a plans made them a really good target and the fact that they had scarlett johansson as their spokesperson in a big super bowl ad in 2014. carol: explain that. about the ad. >> [laughter] well, i have to back up a little bit on the ceo. he is an interesting guy because his background is in consumer marketing. .e went to harvard he is from queens but he grew up in israel. he went to harvard. when he got out, he went to procter & gamble and worked on the crest account. from there, he went to the

pillsbury division in israel. he then ran nike. basically, he is a really great consumer marketing guy. one of the things he likes to do is start controversy. to create awareness, as he puts it carol: it's effective. . it works. -- to create awareness, as he puts it. >carol: it's effective. it works. >> in this case, he hired scarlett johansson to do an ad for the super bowl where they took these jabs at coke and pepsi. they got a lot of attention for that. and it made them a target for these sort of pro-palestinian boycotters. i think he likes mixing it up. i think he likes taking people on. a friend described him as a hipster david versus goliath. i think he's trying to turn the whole boycotts and make that help his company, too, and turned that in soda stream's

favor. the company stock is way up. they bought this company, this private equity firm that hired him, for $6 million and it is now worth $1.5 billion. julia: let's get back to when he was operating in the west bank. he was in charge of nike and given the opportunity to move away. he wanted to stay in israel. you also described a guy who wants to focus on peace, not just a profitable business. talk about that and the people he employed because he had a real cocktail of employees. >> we kind of skipped over that and that is important. he comes in in 2007, and they have this plant, this old munitions factory on the west bank, and basically, a lot of israelis did not want to work assembling soda making machines. he said, we need to start hiring palestinians. there was terrorism at the time, it was controversial. they installed metal detectors.

they said, basically, we will all go to the metal detectors. some people quit. julia: israelis quits. >> right. but also, what he was seeing was that -- carol: palestinians and israelis working together and getting along. >> getting along really well. carol: there is a bigger story. he is saying that maybe what he's doing in the work they said -- workplace at his company is a way, a path to peace, if you will, much more broadly in the middle east. thinks -- say the leaders of the palestinians and leaders of the israelis, benjamin netanyahu -- they are managing and not interested in peace, just managing the conflict and they benefit from that. they are not seeing a future beyond that. he thinks private sector people , like him, and people at his company, they need to take these steps independent of the

political process to try to bring about peace. because that is the only way he thinks it will happen. carol: what is interesting in terms of what he's doing, being welcoming the palestinian workers, is it endearing him to palestinian human rights groups? , because now they say, you build your factory on this land that the israelis stole from the thedoings -- stole from city in israel. says -- the mayor julia very welcome. :>> yes. carol: what do the workers feel about him? both the israeli and palestinian workers? >> we went to the factory. it's pretty amazing. it's amazing that a guy who runs this company, he is the ceo. it's not a huge company, revenues are like $500 million a year. he knows all these people.

he knows a lot of them by name. he has long relationships with them. he gets involved in their personal lives, some stuff that didn't go into the story that i'm kind of sad about, like a break dancer who wants to go to acting school in the u.s. and he is like, let's help them. there are a lot of things like that. it is just funny, the fact that he is on intimate terms with all these folks and they are factory workers. turkey's central bank finds itself juggling presidential politics. carol: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

♪ julia: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek.

i'm julia chatterley. carol: i'm carol massar. you can listen to us on sirius xm, channel 119, and on the radio in new york. 99.1 fm in washington, d.c. and 960 a.m. in the bay area. julia: and in london and asia. in the economic section for weeks now, the turkish president has been pressuring his central bank not to raise borrowing costs. carol: and he talked up a small victory. >> the president of turkey has a theory about modern inflation. that is if you want to keep inflation low, keep interest rates low, too. >> explain. >> it is a bit unorthodox. he has never explained where he got this idea. >> i want to go, huh? [laughter] >> it is not completely unprecedented in latin america. in the 1970's, there was a school called the structuralist

economist. the head of it was an argentine economist that worked for the united nations. their argument was developing economies and developed economies are different. there are structural issues that cause bottlenecks in developing economies, that the flex apply and push up prices. those issues are beyond the supply and push up prices. those issues are beyond the reach of what the central bank can do to resolve them. so if you do push up interest rates, all that happens in an environment where there's a lack of competition because it was a closed markets, and the companies push up the cost on consumers and it is feeding inflation more. there is a basis except most economies have progressed beyond the state. >> a few raise prices on the offset money, they are the cost by charging consumers more. i get that.

does that apply to turkey? >> inflation is 13% now. >> right. that is double what the central bank's target is. recently, on december 14, they had an interest rate decision and announced a 50 basis point increase. the markets were expecting something around four points. carol: >> a big difference. >>[laughter] yes. -- carol: a big difference. >> [laughter] yes. they went into a tailspin and people are saying, what's going on? we talked to some academics, one who had argued that in the 1980's, it was true that in turkey, the structural issues did fuel very high inflation. going up to 135 annually. that is no longer the case tariff barriers were dismantled and turkey is now integrated with the world economy. carol: he talks about the

interest rate lobby. a little controversial i feel like. a little conspiracy theory. julia: a lot controversial. >> well, he loves conspiracy theories in a way that echoes how putin talks, the world is against us and the world wants to undermine us and he says there is a group of financiers -- and he has not been explicit about everyone in the group -- but he says they are trying to damage the economy by lobbying for higher interest rates. julia: the point is that the president leaned on the central bank and said we don't want you to hike rates. i do not want do to hike rates in the sense that perhaps you need to control inflation or at lease the market perceives you need to, and you got an independent central bank. >> right. carol: that is the key point. >> and that is an issue. it is more than an academic

difference of opinion. because turkey has a huge deficit. it is 40 billion, around 5% of gdp and i think if you recall in peso crisis, the it was around 7%. when these get quite large, investors are on their toes, watching what is going on. if they are seeing this dynamic between the government and central-bank, it could basically turn confidence in turkey around. carol: with turkey borrowing a quarter of the sum of its gdp to finance its debt, if the economy falls into any trouble, they will deal with servicing the debt. that will be complicated. you also have elections coming up. he is doing these fun dances and i feel like they are to manage a couple of different things. >> his priority is stimulating growth. we have seen that from other

areas of policy, where they set up a special fund to lend companies and disperse billions of dollars that was established after the coup. the issue with the turkish economy is that it is incredibly important dependent, even for exports, so if exports go up, imports are going up as well. this issue with the current account is sort of chronic and kind of built-in. it is kind of two level games. you need to be playing to the eyel constituency with an to elections and satisfy the demands of international investors. julia:, china's roadmap for dominance and electric cars. carol: and a new fitness fad in india. julia: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

julia: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. i'm julia chatterley. carol: microsoft path satya nadella and the godfather of indian fitness. julia: all of that still ahead on bloomberg businessweek. ♪ julia: we are back with bloomberg businessweek editor in chief, talking about chinese companies always happy seeing the government to foster, subsidize, and protect.

now they are laser focused on electric vehicles. >> we spent a lot of time on this, china growing their own homegrown dominant industries. it feels like it is when they are really going out for that. china is the biggest buyer of electric vehicles. they surpassed the u.s. in 2015, over one million expected to be sold in 2018. they have a really ambitious target of 8 million by 2025. that is an ambitious goal, and it is really being pushed by the government. they see this as a the next industry. the key to china's dominance, they look homegrown to develop the best technology and really dominate their own field and look to export it elsewhere. i think we will see exactly the same thing. carol: we talk about tesla and elon musk disrupting the auto sector but it might have to be a chinese company.

>> they have their homegrown companies competing in this space they're offering healthy incentives to do this. consumers are getting as much as 10% rebates. and we should mention there is a good business aspect. china needs to have a massive -- there is a massive problem in the urban areas where it is not healthy. it's almost two full. that being said, the economic. how much they think they can move into this space, we see the requirements europe has put on in terms of electric vehicle consumption of production. very few people have the ability to produce and mass where we see these going right now in china is a place where you might be able to. a julia: volkswagen, gm, toyota. all the big guys that have billions of dollars. where do they fit here. obviously, they would love to tap into the demand we are talking about for the chinese

market. when china is intent on building coming have to wonder. >> they will have to pay to play in this market. the european and american brands have sort of a cachet factor among china's more elite and established class. that being said, this is really a free-for-all in terms of getting in there and dealing with that demand. if you will be offered this kind of incentive to not only produce but consume. when i think about this, we talk about elon musk all the time but they are still not producing nearly enough teslas to meet demand. this is about matching up. carol: three years is a long time in this space. >> it is a huge amount of time in this space and are not sure we've grappled with the amount of change in the ev with charging, battery -- it is so massive and we spend a lot of time writing about it. carol: let's talk about the story, i love a good business story.

who knew them in the land of where yoga was created, they have a health and fitness problem? >> it is a fascinating story about how the fitness craze in india, they become so much more. and especially with rippling abs. this is a great story about how they are tapping into this demand. they had a caloric minimum not that long ago. it julia: here is our reporter. reporter: i went to india in june to profile walker, the 84-year-old director of a company called "better fitness." they are pioneering the gym

industry in india. i went there and sort of look that how to sell the gym business to a bunch of indians who are not familiar with what it means. >> what do you mean by that? >> in the gym, we are familiar with it in north america. >> a mainstay for many people. >> exactly. it is a specific kind of business. it in this part of the world where this exercises and so common, it doesn't exist. in india, the business has exploded fairly recently. the turn-of-the-century, the business really exploded. and as more money comes into the country, the boom continues and a lot of upwardly mobile aspirational indians are discovering the gym membership. carol: i am someone who's done yoga for a long time. india is where it is created. i assume everyone did yoga and is healthy. that's not the case. >> people continue to do yoga,

but the idea of yoga that we have in the u.s., for example, as a form of exercise that has been commercialized -- that is something that wasn't as popular as you would expect. it has become popular on the west and some of these entrepreneurs are now taking it back and selling it back to india. carol: it is a developing economy and has come a long way. that means there are people that have more discretionary income. they are eating more, potentially, but the downside is there is an unhealthy population and people that are more overweight. >> as the gdp has grown dramatically over the last few decades, a lot of middle-class indians have developed unhealthy habits that includes junk food, smoking, alcohol. there is still a lot of malnutrition in the population.

that persists. but within this upwardly mobile demographic, there has been a huge increase in obesity, heart disease, almost 10% of the population has diabetes. and the obesity rate increased between 1975 and 2014. it has increased by 2500%. carol: they have come a long way from when they had to institute caloric a minimum to make sure people were eating enough. >> and the issue is how to keep people from getting heart attacks in their mid-20's. >> some have called the godfather of indian fitness. >> and 84-year-old man, he exercises in nothing but bodybuilding and there is a very warm and very eccentric.

managed to high near this business in a country that hasn't seen anything like it before. he started the company through his father. it they have over 200 gyms across the country and extending very rapidly. they will transform the way small town india thinks about exercise. carol: american kids, for the most part, if they are lucky, it is not the case in india. if you don't grow up thinking about sports necessarily or exercise. it >> that is one of the big challenges the company faces. it when they open up, it is still a city of 1.2 million people. they have to do outreach and explain what cardiovascular exercise is, for example.

what weight training is. a lot of people also come to this idea of exercise because their doctor tells them to. they're having heart problems in their 20's. carol:, the 19 minutes that change the art world forever. julia: and exchanging gold in ecuador. carol: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪ julia: welcome back to

bloomberg is this week. i'm julia chatterley. carol: and i'm carol massar. you can find us on businessweek.com. and on our mobile app. julia: in the rain forest of ecuador, a minor is searching looking for gold. carol: using a combination of our technology and ancient maps. >> he is a geologist. he is often his own guide. she had various successes before, and there is a dream for several decades to go find the lost cities of gold. carol: what are the lost cities of gold. >> it was established in the 16th century and mining a heck of a lot of gold.

four of them merged into modern cities. there were three that were covered up i the jungle over the decades because at the end of the 16th century, the spaniards were kicked out by the local indigenous people. they continued to be kicked out. they send waves and waves. they are cities and really little settlements. each time, the soldiers would be killed or come back on the and of the stick. it was a violent time. eventually, the spaniards gave up, they lost control of that region. it was controlled by the french for a while. it became independent countries. the jungle covered up these places. they have always sort of existed in the imagination of people.

but they also exist in maps and travel chronicles. carol: they spend a lot of time in the vatican library. there are hundreds of years old documents. >> keith barron was already a working geologist. he had successes in peru and elsewhere on the globe, trying to take a bit of a sabbatical. he took an intensive course in spanish. it he was staying with the family, they are assessed with the maps. they told keith barron about this map that dates back to 1574. it marks the loss that were the gold region of ecuador and peru.

carol: the gold regions of peru as it was translated. >> exactly. carol: jackpot? >> these maps were not unknown. antique collectors knew of these maps. no one thought they would find a lost cities. he became obsessed with this. he found other gold in ecuador. that is what the story is about, the search for one of these cities. carol: hundreds of millions of dollars in the high-stakes artwork. our reporter was at christie's $450that painting sold for million. she loved it and did the math on who made wide. julia: nobody knew what was

going to happen -- >> nobody knew what was going to happen. people in the industry knew that it was going to sell. it was going to sell. they say i want $50 million for this work. and the auction house says, no matter what happens during the sale, you get your $50 million. julia: where does the auction house sit in the middle of this? do they find someone to offer that price? how does it work in terms of finding the guarantee? >> in the past, auction houses

finance the guarantees. they took on the risk. hook if itbe on the doesn't sell. during the financial crisis, there are tens of millions of dollars. it was a bloodbath because they were on the hook for that. the market turned and that nobody was buying it. they had to take all of this into inventory. so after the financial crisis, they stopped doing guarantees for a while. when they came back, let's outsource risk. let's find another person that would place a prearranged bid. if nobody wants it, you will buy it. it is insurance for the sellers and insurance for the auction house. they are not on the hook and they don't take the risk anymore. julia: in the case of leonardo that has this guarantee,

multiple times that. what happens to the person who put up that $100 million? >> they made a lot of money. so all the details of this, we they are all very secretive. it we are never going to find out exactly what happened. usually, the guarantor for taking on the risk. offering the money and take give the seller -- if nobody else bids. if nobody else bids, they buy the work. leonardo, the the bidding went for 19 minutes. it felt like longer. it julia: it felt like longer. >> and so the hammer price was $400 million. the $50 million extra, that is commissioned.

he had 300 million on the outside that is shared between the seller and the guarantor. the buyers and the sellers must love this. >> it gives them the product, the most desirable work that otherwise wouldn't come up. carol:, how to be a leader at an iconic company that has already had to ceos that are larger than life. julia: satya nadella on bloomberg businessweek, just ahead. ♪ carol: welcome back to

bloomberg businessweek. i'm carol massar. julia: i'm julia chatterley. it you can listen to us on the radio in new york, won a 6.1 in boston, 99.1 fm in washington, d.c., and 960 a.m. in the bay area. carol: and in asia on the bloomberg radio plus app. in the debrief, megan murphy sat down with microsoft ceo such a the della -- satya nadella. julia: filling the considerable shoes of bill gates and steve ballmer. megan: this is the best part of my job. with him, i was lucky and had a clear place to start.

reading the book was fascinating to me because i highly recommend people read it. it is both a sort of detail about his life, which i don't think people really understand, and immigrant, and with his wife and disabled son. in his book and how he mulled himself to the executive is about empathy, putting up with the epic core of a corporate culture. particularly one that has gone through that. that's what i wanted to talk to him about. and when companies are expected to carry more of a voice. the immigration policy, infrastructure, ai. how do you wield that voice? how do you be that leader both internally and externally? julia: he said the importance of listening, to be empathetic. megan: he is the third ceo of microsoft. he follows bill gates and steve

ballmer. that is not easy. he says that when the names were circulating as steve ballmer's replacement, none of the internal candidates were driving any enthusiasm among employees, including himself. [laughter] carol: he is incredibly candid about the cultural problems he felt that microsoft had when he came on. and how broken he felt the company was. in what way? megan: that employees were not empathetic toward each other and there was a competitive culture that business units weren't aligned in a single direction. this is a company that we all think we know and we have all used office. we know there products. we know the bejeweled history and the place in american culture. to have someone that candid that needs to reinvent that, i found that particularly moving.

julia: how do you reinvent a culture with former ceos that were so pivotal in their own way in the time that they existed at microsoft? you carol: kendall out an outspoken. megan: there were a lot of employees in the room. if you meet him, one tip i would give executives is, he's very unassuming. he is quite self-deprecating. to a fault. and describes himself as an average kid, got lucky. somehow ended up as ceo of microsoft. we know that's not true. in my job, when you interview a lot of senior people, the people who know that the world does not revolve around them and actually revolves around their business and their employees -- he is not mistaken about that. carol: just listening to what you have to say about empathy, something struck home for him. you talk about his son.

bigger through this tragedy and this illness, it affects them. megan: his son is disabled, and they talked about the moment where they found out. i really respect -- his wife was the one that said to him, it's not about us. what i really respect is he has been with his wife since they were teenagers. -- said to him it is not

about us. it is about making this journey as productive and involved. it really shaped the mindset of nothing has happened to me. it is my job to go out there and try to make the world a better place in the way that i do through microsoft. but it is not about me. it is about something larger than myself. carol: it's available on newsstands now. julia: an online and the mobile app. we saved the best for last in this one. carol: we both love the story that megan murphy did with satya nadella. he talks about empathy in the work lace, empathy and life. it's really important. julia: the importance of empathy in leadership. a man with pretty big shoes to fill as far as microsoft is concerned. more bloomberg television begins now. ♪ cannot live without it.

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